He was taken back in cross-examination to figure 15, which perhaps I should just remind you of what he said about that, showing the long rope tied around the body. Four different knots were identified. He did agree with Mr. Edis's suggestion that none of the four knots there demonstrated showed any great degree of skill, and indeed showed a degree of improvision he thought. They may have been tied hastily in his view. The other ropes he thought displayed more sophistication, using bowlines, sheet bends and overhand knots. He agreed that there was some use of granny knots which would not be found in climbing or sailing manuals, and he was shown our exhibit 13, the Royal Yachting Association manual, recommending the use of stoppers. He told us, Mr. Ide himself told us that he had been a sailor and a fireman, and he had learnt some of these knotting skills in each of those activities. So obviously the defence say well, lots of people, fireman, sailors, everybody in the Lake District. It is a common skill. That was the point I think at which he was asked those questions. He also said he had learnt the bowline, the sheet bend, the clove hitch, the reef knot and the eye splice all in the Scouts. He did not think the figure of eight was in the Scout curriculum. That tied in, I think, with what Mr. Park said. He did accept that the figure of eight knot would however be in the Royal Yachting Association manual.
Just one other thing about knots entirely separately. You remember Mr. Douthwaite who was called by the defence very recently. He was the rigger from Barrow. He said he had been in the trade since 1975, and he told us that people in that particular trade had experience of knots, including reef knots and bowlines, and he talked about long splices and short splices. He was also familiar with figure of eight knots, and he was accustomed to stopper knots used to prevent ropes slipping through holes, and he was asked about what would a fitter know about all of this, being the job that Mr. Rapson apparently was being trained for. He was an apprentice fitter is I think the expression used in the admissions, and he said the fitters would be around doing work with him at the same time, although they would be more concerned with hardware materials, spanners and things, rather than work with ropes.